Posts by Marvin Shilmer

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

Marvin Shilmer

"However sometimes a question is used as a trap or weapon....... sometimes as an insult. That should be avoided by moving the debate along if possible....... instead of getting bogged down."

I've never understood thinking like that. Ever!

If a precise question is asked and the answer is relevant to the subject then that question deserves an answer. The only "trap" I see in a question is on the part of someone who does not want to face what the answer says about something they want to hold as valid.

The fastest way to move a discussion along is to give straightforward answers to relevant questions. This is how we learn and grow. If anything, failure to answer questions bogs down honest discussion.

We all should refuse to let questions insult us. We grow by facing questions and answering them.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

Marvin Shilmer

"I come here for the support. I like Terry's description of a triage."

To some extent everyone who participates or lurks here is looking for support of some kind. My personal view is that if we have something we can share that helps someone else then we should share it to help that person. We all have different things and different amounts of things.

The predominate means I use to help people online on forums like this is to make myself available to answer questions and flesh out topics they need help with, if I can. I get the same help myself by engaging with persons who know things I don't, that is so long as they are willing to let themselves be challenged and answer questions accordingly.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

Marvin Shilmer

"New people who are damaged show up here and their capacity to tolerate less-than-diplomatic handling is a disservice to their condition.... I think we could all be a bit more tender with the Newbies, if for no other reason, than because this is Triage. Only a few will make it through the tunnel to daylight anyway."

I don't disagree with that, and what you depict above is not what I was responding to. I was responding to "must" in your sentence saying "If you wish to be persuasive, you must be diplomatic." As I said before, I don't think that's always true (emphasis on "always"). I do not suggest what you say is never true (emphasis on never).

There are lots of folks who need tender handling for all sorts of quite valid and understandable reasons. You articulate an example of that in the many JWs who happen upon this forum looking for help with what's ailing them. As you did above, with my early comments I too offered an example of what I was speaking of. Based on what you write above, I don't think you and I disagree.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

Marvin Shilmer

"If you wish to be persuasive, you must be diplomatic."

I don't think that's always true. Learned readers are not persuaded to accept conclusions of arguments based on diplomacy. Learned readers are persuaded to accept conclusions of an argument based on the veracity of premises in that argument, the level of inference of those premises and, finally, whether the form of argument is valid. If you have solid premises inferring what they are proposed to infer, and if those premises are composed in a known valid logical form of argument then diplomatically presented or not the learned reader will be persuaded.

That said, on forums like this worrying about persuading is a waste of time. I think at most we can hope to share good information and learn along they way. Sometimes what we learn is not what folks think was there to be learned, but it is learning nevertheless.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

Marvin Shilmer

I visit this web forum somewhat out of habit and sometimes to engage a topic.

Responsible and productive discussion and debate both require at least two essential things: presenting precise and challenging questions and answering precise challenging questions.

My experience here is that precise challenging questions often go unanswered, which makes responsible discussion and debate impossible. Very frustrating.

Accordingly, for me JWN seems to be more a gauge of sentiments than either a place to hold discussion or debate.

34

Congregation that have sent in money!

by DwainBowman in

in the past week, i have heard from a number of friends scattered all over the place.

a number of them are very upset over the congregation being required, to send in all monies over $4,000.

a number of these were kh's that were saving to buy land, and or build new kh's.

Marvin Shilmer

"I can't understand the basis that people expect to have money they donated, returned."

When substantial money is donated typically there is an intended use that compelled the donation. When use of the donated money is for something other than intended then hackles get raised because the person feels like they were misled and, basically, suckered for their money.

Otherwise I'm with you. If someone donates money to a cause without it being for something specific then they have little if any reason to complain about how it is used so long as it is used responsibly.

By the way, editing function like the quote feature are not working for me. I'm using IE 11.

34

Congregation that have sent in money!

by DwainBowman in

in the past week, i have heard from a number of friends scattered all over the place.

a number of them are very upset over the congregation being required, to send in all monies over $4,000.

a number of these were kh's that were saving to buy land, and or build new kh's.

Marvin Shilmer

Yes. I know one JW couple who two years ago donated upward of 30,000 USD to the local congregation for purposes of building a new hall. Now that money's been sent to Watchtower and the local congregation is told they will have their hall remodeled at an unspecified future time. There is quite a bit of astonishment at this and, as it was related to me, a sense of highway robbery.

11

Question related to the digestive tract of carnivores

by geevee in

i was raised as a jw from about the age of 2, my parents were baptized when i was 5 years old.. i always liked the thought in the song about a young boy leading all of these once viscous animals, that are now tame.... in some of the reading i have done, the digestive tracts of carnivores..meat eaters has a highly acidic stomach, with a short small intestine and a short large intestine [bowel].

a lot of apes are frugivores [fruit eaters] less acid, long small intestine and longer bowel.

the question: did god recreate these animals [carnivores] and change their digestive tracts after the noachian flood so that they could eat meat [other creatures] as the jw's believe that these animals only ate straw [herbivores] before the flood and that he will restore their original herbivore digestive tract after armageddon?.

Marvin Shilmer

"The question: Did God recreate these animals [carnivores] and change their digestive tracts after the Noachian flood so that they could eat meat [other creatures] as the jw's believe that these animals only ate straw [herbivores] before the flood and that he will restore their original herbivore digestive tract after Armageddon?"

Watchtower has sent mixed signals on this issue.

You might find the following two blog articles helpful. One contains a little recognized teaching coming from Watchtower. The other contains multiple references to scholarly information that most JWs are woefully unfamiliar with because Watchtower has meticulously avoided them. See:

Genesis and meat eating?

Blood doctrine – thrown under the bus

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

Marvin Shilmer

Simon,

I'm not trying to object to whatever it is you want to do with your own forum. But I do have a question, and my impression is you started this particular discussion to answer questions regarding your proposition.

What happens if today I'm in Greece and post here? Does it show the Greek flag? What if Tuesday of next week I'm in Italy? Does it show the flag of Italy?

My question is asked for my own circumstances, and I really don't care how many others do or do not have my set of circumstances. I'm not looking for sarcasm. I'm not looking for insult. I'd just like an answer to the question above.

Thanks in advance.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

Marvin Shilmer

"As to posting while travelling, if its a concern just zip your paranoid thoughts up until you get back to a secure location."

Paranoid thoughts? Besty, you must not get around much. It's not paranoid to understand when you're a wanted person by those who'd love to ruin your family life under the banner of performing some sick Watchtower jihad! I still don't see an answer to the actual question I asked, either. Do you have one, or are you content to just play bully toward someone asking a serious question? I'm not interested in your petty sarcasm.